MyMaine Birth

152. MyMaine Birth: How We Birth Matters, Katelyn's First Home Birth Story

• Angela Laferriere • Season 4 • Episode 152

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In this episode I talk with my niece Kately about becoming a mom at 19 and choosing a home birth in rural Maine where options are limited. We unpack a rapid, induced labor, unexpected third-degree tears, early breastfeeding struggles, and what it feels like when support stops being transparent and starts feeling like control.

In this episode we discuss:

  • finding out she was pregnant at 18 and the decision to parent
  • why a home birth felt safer than the local hospital
  • navigating prenatal care in a maternity care desert
  • late pregnancy pressure to induce
  • tinctures, castor oil, and a labor that moved too fast
  • baby's first moments
  • third degree tears and choosing no stitches
  • boundaries in the birth space and questions about consent and experience 

Additional Resources:

MyMaineBirth.com 

Closing Song by Kate Sutherland.  Kate's community songs and deep nature connection work can be found here at KateSutherland.ca

Cold Open And Big Feelings

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, that was. I was a chaotic birth, but you know what?

SPEAKER_01

I did it.

SPEAKER_02

I created a TikTok, and that was one of my first TikToks. I was like, my greatest flex, and then it was Jasmine, and then I was like, my second greatest flex. I did it at home.

Why This Birth Story Matters

Angela

I'm Angela, and I'm a certified birth photographer, experienced doula, childbirth educator, and your host here on the My Main Birth podcast. This is a space where we share the real life stories of families and their unique birth experiences in the beautiful state of Maine. From our state's biggest hospitals to birth center births and home births, every birth story deserves to be heard and celebrated. Whether you're a soon-to-be mom, a seasoned mother, or simply interested in the world of birth, these episodes are for you. Welcome to episode 152 of My Main Birth. Today's birth story guest is my niece Caitlin. We recorded this episode a few months ago, and I waited to release it. Partly because it's so personal for me, and also partly because, as I explained in the last episode, witnessing Caitlin's pregnancy, birth, and postpartum experience was a major turning point for me and my birth work. When my daughter was born back in 2019, I knew immediately that I needed to learn more about pregnancy and birth because of the way that that birth experience left me feeling. It was like I missed something that was extremely important. And I felt like someone out of either love or the desire to help, or maybe just having a managing mindset around birth, whatever, kind of took that from me. I knew I had to learn more about pregnancy and birth because I had this overwhelming feeling that one day I was gonna need to know all of the things. I don't want my daughter to have that experience taken from her when it's her time to go through pregnancy and birth experiences. And then two years ago, when my daughter was only four years old, I found out that my then 18-year-old niece was pregnant and would be birthing in the fall of 2024 up in Holton, Maine. And she wanted a home birth. A little side note here for those of you who don't know me, I have three kids with my husband of 21 years. Our oldest son, Connor, is 20 years old at the time of this recording, and he was born one month before Caitlin. I was pregnant for the first time with my sister-in-law Lindsay, and she gave birth one month after my traumatic hospital experience. I've known Caitlin and her siblings for their entire lives. So as you can imagine, this story hits a little different for me. My family and my husband's family grew up in Connecticut. My husband and I moved up to Maine in 2013, just before my second son was born at home here in Old Town. My husband's brother's family, Caitlin's family, stayed in Connecticut until 2020 before moving up to Holton in 2021. Now, it's fair to say that Holton, Maine is in a maternity care desert, and the options for home birth care are very slim. At the time of her pregnancy, I was still very much in the process of unpacking what exactly had happened to me in my most recent home birth with my daughter. And although I never fully fed into their dogma, I was beginning to be influenced by the Free Birth Society. Even though at that time, I didn't even really fully understand what all of their dogma was even about. Up until joining MMI, I was never in their private communities. And during her pregnancy, I was still at the beginning points of listening to their podcast. But through meeting Naya and learning about free birth and witnessing her birth, I had already developed this inner knowing that if I had a free birth with my daughter, I probably would have gotten the thing that I've needed and felt like was taken from me. And if I were to birth again, I would definitely choose a free birth. Mostly I was beginning to really realize the importance of undisturbed birth. During the previous summer of 2023, shortly after witnessing Naya's free birth, I saw the terms traditional midwife in a woman's bio, and I reached out and began talking with her. And I naively, very naively believed the things that she told me about her business. And I very stupidly and so, so regrettably recommended her to my niece when she came to me asking about support for a home birth in Holton. I mentioned the midwives in Prescott Isle. I mentioned possibly going down to Holly No. 7 at the birth center. But those were both an hour and two hours away from where she lived, respectively, and she knew what she wanted for her birth, and she wanted a home birth. At this point, the only birth that I had attended as the only person there besides the family was Naya's, and I was not a support person at that birth in any way. I was just her photographer. And that was made very clear at that birth. I was not to do anything, if anything came up, except document. And she was very ingrained in the free birth society dogma at that time. So that was a little confusing to me too, because I still had this thing that I had heard midwives repeat over and over. And that is that birth goes great, except for when it doesn't. And I didn't really understand what they meant by that. And how to balance that with the things that I was hearing from the Free Birth Society that was like, as long as you trust birth, everything will always be fine, as long as it's undisturbed. Which I do feel like is true on some level. But there were a lot of other things they were saying that was that true. I didn't know. I didn't know what was true at this point in 2023. I was not prepared at that time to support Caitlin fully through her pregnancy and birth. So she went with this person who I gave her the number for, who had the terms, quote unquote, traditional midwife, in her bio. Ultimately, you don't know what you don't know, and when you know better, you do better. And I didn't know. She didn't know. I was still very much figuring out what is the truth about birth, what is the truth about licensure and midwifery support, because I myself had been through three very different birth experiences. That was a big reason why I started this podcast. I wanted to hear other women's stories. I was in the beginning steps of a quest for more information. I am to this day quite disturbed about how this quote-unquote traditional midwife behaved throughout my niece's pregnancy, birth, and especially postpartum. It was nothing short of debauchery. And witnessing that changed me as a birth worker. As someone who started this to learn more about birth because I didn't want this transformational experience to be taken from my daughter. Like I felt like it was maybe taken from me. I started to take on that same sentiment for my niece throughout her pregnancy. Especially being so young. I really felt like it was important for her to have a positive experience, to set the stage for a good start to her mothering journey, and for her relationship with the baby's father to be as strong as possible. We'll never know if things would have been different if the birth went more smoothly and if she was able to be more in her power and to have a better postpartum and like what that would might have done for her relationship. But we do know that she was not given the chance and she was managed and rodeo-rangled just like I felt I was. And I cried night after night four months after this birth. But I do think it's important to share. So here it is.

Meet Caitlin And The Positive Test

Angela

Hi Kate. Welcome to my main birth. Thank you. I really appreciate this. It's gonna be awesome. So to get started, would you share a little bit about yourself?

SPEAKER_02

Well, obviously, my name is Caitlin LaFerrier. Right now I am 20 years old. I have an almost one-year-old. And when I gave birth, I was 19 and I did it at home. And I live in Holton, Holton, Maine. Northern Maine, Rose Tick County, Maine. Lovely Maine.

Angela

To jump into your birth story, will you share about how you found out you were pregnant and what your thoughts were in choosing your care?

SPEAKER_02

Oh gosh. Well, I've always had so my cycles have always been on and off. So like when I took my pregnancy test, it was kind of just to like ease my mind. Like I didn't think I was gonna be pregnant. I was like, like just to ease my mind just to know that I'm not pregnant. And I had done it in front of my sister Madison. And um, she like she looked at the test and she saw that it was positive before me, and she was like, Hey. And I was like, What? And I looked down and I see it's positive, and I'm like, I I'm not sure. Like in that moment, I didn't know what to do. I think the first thing I did was call my boyfriend and tell him to get like, I was like, you need to get me another pregnancy test. In fact, get me two pregnancy tests. So uh he ended up coming over and he, you know, gave me the pregnancy test, and he was like, Listen, whatever happens, we're gonna get through this. Like it's gonna be okay. So then I take them and they're both positive, and I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm definitely pregnant. What do I do? So uh, you know, I contemplated on that for a few weeks and I called doctors and I got the doctors all set up. And you know, I was just like freaking out. And um obviously the option, like there were options that like were given to me as far as abortion, which was just 100% against my like viewpoint. Like I never believed in that, so that was like off the table automatically. Um, then there was you know keeping the baby, which is what I ended up doing, which is like the greatest thing that I could have done. I'm so happy I did that. And then there was giving her up for adoption. And I don't know if if looking back now, if I had decided to do that and then I had given birth to her, I would have changed my mind. I would have been like, no, I can't do that. So you know, I I kept her, I loved her. You were 18 when you found out, right? Yeah, I was 18. Yep, I was 18, and I was freaking, I was scared.

Angela

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I was scared.

Angela

So what was the next things that you would have did after that, like as your pregnancy progressed?

SPEAKER_02

Well, I didn't have my license at that point, so I had ended up scheduling the doctor my first doctor's appointment on my life, like getting my license date. And at that point, I still haven't told anybody except for my boyfriend and my sister. So uh I was like, all right, we're just we're gonna cancel the doctor's appointment. Even like like at the time, I thought that it was so important for me to go to this doctor's appointment, but looking back, I'm glad I chose my license over my doctor's appointment. Um but then I ended up scheduling it for a month after. Then, like after I had told my parents, they were like, Whatever you do, we will support you. And I told them automatically, I was like, I'm keeping her. I can't not. So I went, you know, I went on with the doctor's appointments and I started talking to Levi and my mom about what I wanted for my birth. And then you started talking to me too. We started talking and you gave me ideas and things like that.

Angela

Yeah, I remember you coming and really just wanting to know like what your different options were, but also you were pretty set on not wanting to go to the hospital. And unfortunately, there really just weren't a lot of and still aren't almost any options for women who want a home birth in this area.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, you had you had also talked a lot about free birthing, and I, you know, being 18 years old and like like this is my first birth, I don't know what to expect. I wanted like reassurance, like somebody to be like, you're doing great, like you don't have to go to the hospital. And like, I don't know if I would have been able to do that myself. Now I do know that. I for fact I didn't really need a midwife, but you know, it's good to have reassurance when you're first time going in. And you were just you were so young. Yeah, no, I was 18 years old. I was like, uh gosh, I don't want to go to the hospital because well, I've heard a lot of horror stories about the hospital up here, and now they're they don't even have the hospital up here, so I guess Yeah.

Angela

So we were having these conversations in like late winter, early spring of 2024. So this was before the Holton Hospital closed to OB. But you did end up going there for a little bit of care for your pregnancy, didn't you? How did choosing your care unfold?

Choosing Care And Avoiding Hospital

SPEAKER_02

Well, you had introduced me to and I I had ended up talking to her like three three months into my pregnancy, and we we had a meeting, but I was still going to the hospital at that point. I think I started was still going to the hospital for checkups like until I was seven months pregnant. Yeah, I think I was seven months pregnant until I like when I stopped. But you know, they had offered me this, that, the other thing. And, you know, I was kind of getting frustrated because they they wanted me to take the sugar test. And I was like, I don't want to take that. And they were they were kind of adamant about it, but they also like were not like like we're gonna shove it down your throat, but just like enough for me to be like, okay, well, I don't really need to be here, so I stopped going.

Angela

How was that? Did you feel confident in that? Like, how was your appointments with throughout your pregnancy?

SPEAKER_02

They were they were pretty much the same as the doctor's appointments. We met up every month, talked about like different things to expect, what I should be doing. I don't know, yeah, it was pretty much every month, and then like the nine month like mark she would like visit like every like every week or so, like not nine months, eight month mark. She would visit every week or so and like you know, tell me what's going on. She was really nervous about it being a breach baby, and I was like, oh gosh. So she had me doing exercises. So that was that was fun. Levi would watch me upside down trying to turn the baby around.

Angela

Did she do like palpate palpations on your belly or to like give you any idea of what position that the baby was in as your like pregnancy was progressing?

SPEAKER_02

Uh, she did, but she wasn't confident in like like it being breached. I mean, I forgot the other one's name. There was one that was assisting her, and she was like, I'm pretty sure the baby's in the right position. Um, but she wasn't confident in it. So she was like, you should just keep doing the exercises just to be sure.

Angela

And I kept doing the exercises. What were your expectations of the care that she was going to provide you?

SPEAKER_02

I wanted advice. I wanted to be able to know. Like I wanted to, like, I wanted somebody to be like, well, this is what you should be doing. Here are the reasons why. Like I wanted like I wanted people to tell me like what I should be doing and why. I didn't want people to be like, you need to do this, and not tell me like not having no explanation to it. Like I wanted to know why I needed to, like, you know, that was really important to me because that was one thing that the hospital never did for me. They never explained to me what they were doing or why they were doing it. So I was like, well, I want somebody to explain me to me why you're doing it or why you want me to do it. So that was kind of like the only thing that I really wanted. I yeah, that was the only thing that I really wanted was for her to like give me advice and to tell me why. Yeah. But I wasn't really, I wasn't really expecting I wasn't really expecting too much because like I said, this is my first birth, 18 years old. I was like, I don't know what to expect. You just tell me what's like's going on over here and why, and I'll be okay.

Angela

Yeah. So how were things as your pregnancy sort of progressed towards the end of your pregnancy? How were you feeling?

SPEAKER_02

I was good until the last month of it. I I did not sleep very well. So I I was often really I was up early in the morning, like doing different things, cleaning the house, and I stayed up really, really late watching a show with like my boyfriend. So I I did not sleep very often, and the only thing about my pregnancy that was really difficult was my feet. For some reason, they hurt the entire time. Like three months on, I could barely stand for more than four hours. As a waitress, that's not something you can do. So like you need to be able to walk around and do things.

Angela

Yeah. So how are you feeling emotionally?

SPEAKER_02

It was a roller coaster. So being 18 years old, I uh I was obviously like there were a lot of emotions. Like I was first I was scared, then I was like, this could be really good, like this could be awesome. But then I was scared some more. You know, the the con consistent like emotion was definitely like fear. I was like, Well, what's gonna happen? This, that, and the other thing, and then you know, like you have issues in relationships and things like that, and it's just like you know, throw it into a pregnancy, and you're just like, My gosh, what do I do? So there was a lot, a lot going on in my life.

Angela

So but we made it through. Yeah, so were you kind of having fears about the pregnancy, or was it more of like just the whole big picture, like after the pregnancy?

SPEAKER_02

I had no fear of the pregnancy. I didn't even fear like going into birth. I you know what, from the get-go, I think going into birth, I was not afraid of it at all. Like I knew it'd be painful, but I wasn't scared. It was more what's to come after. Like after I have like this small little baby, like I'm responsible for this small little baby. What am I supposed to do? And then the whole breastfeeding journey I was scared of too. But I'm almost 12 months in and I'm still breastfeeding her. Amazing. Yeah, it's definitely uh a lot of work. It is a lot of work. People my gosh, people they hate on people who do breastfeeding in like public and things like that, and you're just like, Well, if the baby's crying, what do you expect? We don't have formula, we don't do formula. I don't know. I get upset when people are judging others for how they feed their baby, even if it's formula fed, like like you gotta do what you gotta do.

Angela

Yeah. So what were those final weeks and then days leading up to when your labor started, like for you?

SPEAKER_02

Uh well, like I said, I was always exhausted, could not sleep. It was you know what? It was normal. I just wanted the baby out at that point. I was like, When are you coming out? Why are you doing this to me? Like she was, she would she was a week and a half late. So I was kind of just like, Well, you're way past your due date. Can't can we can we get the ball rolling here? Because at that point, like I said, I was tired, my feet always hurt, and um I was pregnant. I was I was big. I was big. I wanted it to be done, I wanted to meet her, I wanted to see her.

Past Due Dates And 42-Week Pressure

Angela

What unfolded once you passed your due dates? Did you have any previous inclination that maybe your midwife like wouldn't support you after a certain point?

SPEAKER_02

She had started mentioning that she couldn't help me after 42 weeks of my pregnancy. So after I was 42 weeks, she would like she would have to like tell me to go to the hospital, or I'd have like she couldn't help me. Um, so you know, I started to get a little worried about that as well. Actually, now I think about it, I was really worried about that. I was like, Well, I don't want to go to the hospital, like all right, I'm like paying this midwife, and I'm like, I don't want to have to pay for the hospital too. So I I was worried about that. She had mentioned it, and I was like, my mom, she was induced for both me and my brother at like two weeks after her due date. So, you know, obviously I was worried about it. I was like, Well, mom, my mom had to get induced two weeks in. Like, I don't know, or two weeks after, excuse me. I don't know if I'll be able to like do that. Like, you know, I was going off of what my mom's pregnancy was because I didn't have any other reference. But no, I was worried about that. But she um my midwife, she ended up coming a Friday, Friday, yeah, Friday.

Angela

Yeah, it was Friday afternoon because she also had a very busy full-time job. Um, so it seemed like perspective, Friday night would be a great time to have a little induction party, which kind of ended up.

SPEAKER_02

Was it Friday the 13th?

Angela

Yeah, it was.

SPEAKER_02

Was it really? Oh, I didn't even think it was. Oh my gosh, I didn't even think of that. Huh. Well, she ended up coming that afternoon Friday the 13th and she was like, you know, we're gonna try some tinctures.

Angela

Was everyone with her at this point?

SPEAKER_02

It was just the midwife, and then it was another girl that came in like way after, and then she had called in the other two, like after I was like, I'm in labor, come down.

Angela

Um, did you know ahead of time that there were gonna be that many people there?

SPEAKER_02

I did not. I did not know that. I yeah, I was under the impression that it was gonna be her and then one other person. And then when they all ended up showing up, like obviously I was in labor. I did not care that much. I was like, whatever. But I after after that, I was like, I like I was under the impression it was just her and one other, but it ended up being her and then the three others, and I was like, okay. So they were all very nice, they were all very polite. They they helped me out with everything that needed to get done, they helped my family. My boyfriend, uh, at the time, he uh he was not very good with the whole blood and all of that, so he he couldn't help clean up. So it was I was really grateful that they would help do all of that because I think he would have threw up or fainted. So oh boy.

Angela

Okay, so to back it up a little bit, so she comes over Friday afternoon after work and uh suggests some tinctures. What um was your thoughts at that point? You were a week and a half post-part or a week and a half past your due date, and from I was ready for the baby to come out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I was I was honestly ready. I was like, okay, we can try tinctures. That sounds good. I'm good with that. Um, she had also I I don't know what it's called. Like something oil cash casture? Castor oil. Yeah, is it is it that? I think it's that. She also ended up giving that to me too. Like it was like with a chicken wrap or something. I don't know.

Angela

So do you remember the order of what unfolded that afternoon? Would you walk me through it? Because I remember you saying you were feeling some of the early labor symptoms and we're starting to feel some things, but you were worried that she wasn't gonna be able to support you more than I think three or four more days.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it was it was only four more days. Oh gosh. Um, but yeah, no, she she uh she came in, I think it was like one one o'clock that that day. She had made the castor oil chicken wrap, whatever she had made, and she had given that to me, and then we started doing tinctures every uh I think we did every 15 minutes. I think we did tinctures for like a good hour every 15 minutes. Um, and then after that, it was not every hour. It was, I think we did it one time after that, before bed. And then she had gone upstairs, and then her friend had gone upstairs, and then you know, me and Levi were kind of there, and she was, you know, obviously suggesting ways to like help induce. Um like what was she suggesting? Uh intimacy, obviously. So she had suggested that she was like, I know this is like this might be a little embarrassing, but she's like, but you know, getting intimate with your man might be a good way to try. And I was like, okay. We didn't end up doing anything because I didn't I didn't really feel like it. I was big, I didn't want to do anything, he didn't want to do anything, so we kind of just watched a TV show, and he went to bed and I could not sleep. So like I was back to doing my regular thing of just you know, going around the house, cleaning dishes, doing this, doing that, and the other thing. And um then I had I went back to bed and I laid down and I was like, okay, I need to sleep, I need to sleep, and then I I had like I kept telling myself I really need to sleep, and I don't know why, because I had never really felt like that before, but I was like, I need to sleep, I need to rest, I know it, I do. Um, but then I couldn't, like I just couldn't. I ran to the bathroom and I was like, my gosh, I feel like crap. So I ran to the bathroom, I went to the bathroom, and I got to do that to you. I yeah, well, yeah. And then I got up and then I believe my water

Castor Oil And Sudden Active Labor

SPEAKER_02

broke. And I was like, oh gosh, like this is how and it happened so fast too. I was like, my water broke, and then I was down on the ground. I was like, oh my gosh, like I feel it, like it's coming on so fast. And I had tried calling out to Levi, but he's a heavy sleeper, so I was like, I called me the midwife, and it was like, um, yeah, so it's happening. Um, and uh so we I did a water birth in a cattle trough. So uh Levi, they had woken up Levi. Levi had to set up the cattle trough, and you know, I was obviously in labor, and I was like, My gosh, it was intense, like it was so fast. My water broke, and I was just in labor, like active labor. There was no early labor, there was nothing.

Angela

Were you still doing the tinctures at this point? I feel like I remember you said you were like doing it.

SPEAKER_02

We were not doing tinctures at that point. They had me doing tinctures when I got into the water, which was like an hour after, I think. Like I because I had taken a shower because I was like, I can't do this without water, because water, like the whole bath, like I did so I made such an important decision, like the whole bath thing that was so good. But I was like, I need to take a shower, I need to do something because doing this out here is just not good. So I was in the shower, and they were like, the bath's all set up, and then I got into the bath, and I just remember feeling out of it, and then they they were giving me a whole bunch of different things. They were like, here's this, here's that.

Angela

Did they say why they were still giving you those tinctures while you were in active labor?

SPEAKER_02

No, there was nothing said about the tinctures. I wasn't, I'm not sure what was going on with the tinctures, but one was active labor, even though it was already in active labor. And at the time I didn't really know it, I didn't really care. I was like out of it. I was just like, get this baby out of me. Yeah. But my mom had pointed it out, and I was like, I was already in active labor. Why are they still giving me a tincture for active labor? But um there was also so the two tinctures that they were giving me was active labor and gentle birth. I don't know what's in them. I'm not sure the whole like thing of it, but I just know that those were what they were called. Um so what like she was giving me both of those, and then she had given me something else that tasted disgusting, like it for me, it tasted like pickle juice. And they were like, Yeah, it's pickle juice, it's pickle juice, because it's like like I said, I was out of it, like I felt almost drunk. Um but shaded me something, and I was like, it tastes like pickle juice, and they were like, Yeah, it's pickle juice, and then I started crying. I was like, I don't like pickle juice. I do remember that part. That's one part I do remember, but everything else I just remember like screaming, like it was chaotic, and I mean labor was only three hours, so like it was a fast, like like you're in labor, get this baby out, and then you're done. Like there was no early labor, there was no like smoothly going into it, it was just water break, three hours. So, and then it like I said, I don't remember I don't remember a lot of my birth. I remember small bits. Yeah, I don't remember a lot of my birth, and then um the obviously Jasmine came out, and um that was the first thing we did, you know. They brought her up to me and they were like, You gotta suck on her nose, you gotta suck on her mouth. And you know, I had done that, and I was like, There's nothing coming out, and they were like, just keep doing it. So I kept doing it, and I was like, Why isn't she crying? Like that scared me because you know, in the the movies you see babies crying, like as soon as they come out of like you know, they as soon as they come out, so you see them crying, and it was like she's not crying, like what's going on? And they were like, She's breathing, she's okay, she's just not crying. You're good, she's okay. And you know, she was she was okay. She didn't cry at all, though. She was she's such an angel. But she knows she didn't cry, she she but that scared me because I'm like, you know, I see the movies and you're like isn't the baby supposed to cry? Isn't that supposed to be a good sign when you hear a baby crying? And like, I'm not hearing a baby crying.

Angela

Yeah, and you had so many tinctures, like I'm sure she was a little stressed out from that. When did she cry for the first time?

SPEAKER_02

I think she started crying when I handed her to mom so that we could go to the bed. Yeah, because we had gotten out, I had gotten out of the bath, and they they wanted the placenta to come out. So I had handed her to my mom because you know I needed assistance and everything. Um, so she started crying then. Um, and as I was waddling to the bed, which was it was a room away, it wasn't even that far. But I started waddling to the bed, and then I just knew the placenta was coming. Like the placenta came so fast, like I was like, like people were like, Well, you need to be worried if the placenta doesn't come after like an hour. And I was like, I don't even I think it came like five minutes after I was like, you know, I was worried about the placenta, but apparently I didn't need to be like that, just came out so fast. So then, yeah, there was all that, and then the midwife tried handing the bowl of the placenta to my boyfriend at the time, and uh he was like, nope, I can't do it. Like, he he was gonna like he was like, Nope, can't do it. So uh my mom ended up grabbing she had the placenta and jasmine as I was waddling to the bed, and they were like, you know, I I remember sitting on the bed too for a really long time after that, and they were just looking down there, like trying to figure out what to do.

Baby’s First Minutes And Placenta

SPEAKER_02

And I was, you know, like I was worried at that point. Like they were whispering, like whispers of hush, and I was I was still out of it, but I knew something was wrong, and I was like, is the baby? Is Jasmine okay? And they were like, No, honey, like you're Jasmine's fine, she's doing great. And I was like, Okay, is there something wrong with me? And they were like, No, honey, you're good, it's okay. But like obviously they were going into another room to like talk about what was going on, and I was like, Well, what am I supposed to do? So I think they had ended up giving jasmine back to me on my chest, and we'd done that for a little while. They were feeding me or giving me like apple juice, they were trying to feed me peanut butter toast, like you know, trying to like give me a whole bunch of different like foods to like nourish myself. And they were like, it's really important for you to hydrate. So they kept giving me apple juice and water and electrolytes. I think there was this electrolyte that they had given. Oh, that's what the pickle juice was. The pickle juice was the electrolytes. I was like, gosh, that was so funny. Anyway, I I couldn't remember what it was, but now I do. Um, so that's what they had given me was the pickle juice, and I was like, I mean, the electrolytes, my gosh. I don't know why, but it tasted like pickle juice to me. It wasn't what happened after that. Yeah, I think they were just like looking down there, trying to make sure that I was okay, and then like they just kept looking down there, and I was like, I know something's wrong. I was out of it out of it at that point, but I knew something was wrong. Um, but you know, I was trying to fet breastfeed Jasmine at that point. She wasn't latching very well. Actually, I don't think she latched at all. Like, I think we tried, but she just couldn't figure out how to do it. And then eventually they were like, Well, listen, sweetheart, you gotta go pee. Like, that's really important for you to go pee. So I went to the bathroom and I sat on the toilet for a good long while, and I was talking to me, and I was like, Well, this is awkward. Because like now that I'm not I'm no longer like giving birth, I'm like, well, I'm butt naked on a toilet right now. I would preferably like to do it on my own. So that's the whole reason why I didn't want to do a hospital birth, too, was I didn't want a million people looking at my hoo-ha. So I ended up having four people look at my hoo-ha. But she was sitting there, she was talking to me, and I was like, I really can't be, like, I can't do it. And she was like, Well, what if you get in the shower and you try to do that? And I was like, Okay, I don't mind. I want to take a shower. And um, at that point, I was really emotional, so I was crying about a lot. And I was like, listen, mom, like I started, I asked my mom, I was like, mom, is it okay if Levi, if Levi comes to take a shower with me? And I was crying. I was like, Mom, is it okay? I was asking her for permission because like you know, me still feeling like I'm a child, like I need to ask permission for that. And mom was like, Yeah, sweetheart, you can, yeah, go go take a shower, go ahead, and leave. You know, obviously it was awkward for Levi because he was like, This is weird. And I was I was like, Yeah, this is weird. But um, we ended up taking a shower and I still couldn't pee. So I had sat on the toilet for I think another good 10 minutes after the shower, and then I had finally, I had finally peed. And she was like, That's really good, that's really important. And I was like, Okay. So then they like they set me up with the whole like you know, putting clothes on, the whole adult diaper thing. And um, they had set me up on the bed, they kept giving me water and food to eat and stuff like that, and like it's really important for you to eat and rest.

Third-Degree Tears And Hospital Decision

SPEAKER_02

And then sat down and she explained my options. She was like, Listen, you had some really bad tears. She was like, I can stitch them, but I can't give you any, I can't give you any like pain medication for it. And she's like, and I'm not confident in my ability to do so. Um, I can have you go to the hospital, or you you can go to the hospital, you can go get them stitched up by the hospital, and they can give you the pain medication or whatever you like might want or need. Or you can go with no stitches, um, and you just need to be in best bed rest for like two weeks. And I was like, okay. So I was presented with those options, and um, I didn't want to go to the hospital like that. Was like like I had cried about that during labor too. I was like, I do not want to go to the hospital. Please don't make me go to the hospital. Um, so I was like, Well, I don't really want to go to the hospital. I don't, I don't think I'm gonna do that. But I also was like one of one of the girls that had had, she uh she was like, I had I had stitches from my first birth, which made me feel like I could do more than I actually could. So I had ended up tearing even worse than if I had just not gotten the stitches and just like stayed on bed rest. So I ultimately decided not to do any stitches and just to stay on bed rest for the two weeks. My boyfriend, he was he was uh staying home for the two weeks, so he could help me out a lot. Um, and that's kind of just how that went. Um, I chose no stitches. And yeah, she ended up, they all ended up going to sleep. I ended up going to sleep, Levi ended up going to sleep, like we were all sleeping. Mind you, this is all at like four in the morning, too. Like I gave birth at four in the morning, and then like I think everything continued can you continued on as far as like the shower, peeing, all of that continued on until like seven in the morning. So we we were all beat. So um we all ended up sleeping, and then I remember waking up and um I remember waking up and being down here, like everybody cleaning up, like everything like happening, and like just like a whole bunch of like cleaning up and everything. And she was like, Hey, listen, you did so good. I'm gonna come check on you tomorrow and see how things go. If she's like, uh text me if you guys need anything, text me or like call me if you need anything. Um, like don't be afraid to tell like what's going on, like it's really important. Like, and she had also explained she's like the hospital would have considered like you hemorrhaging. Um, so like she was like, like what she did was hemorrhaging, and I was like, oh really? And then I think I'm not sure if it was the day after I gave birth to the day after that, but I ended up having a huge like blood clot. I had like a huge thing and like the I hate to call it a diaper, but the diaper. Um and uh I was like, my gosh, what is this? Like, what do I do? So I ended up texting a picture of it to sh and she was like, I I forgot what she had told me, but she was like, um, well, your bleeding seemed okay before. Has there been anything else since? And I was like, no. And she's like, okay, well, keep telling me how uh your bleeding's going, and if it's like anything like that again, you might have to go to the hospital. And after that, it was fine. It was just like the regular bleeding, I think it would be considered. But yeah, no, it I think that's about it for as far as the birth.

Latch Problems And Early Feeding Choices

Angela

So when did she I remember visiting? It was the next day, so that was a Saturday. I was it a Saturday, I think the 14th. It was the next and then it was a Sunday. I had gotten there like at 11 o'clock, and she she still hadn't latched, right? Was that like so you were you not able to latch the whole first day?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah, and and yeah, you had figured out, like, yeah, I uh so they had gotten me the nipple shields because I didn't know how to like get it to latch, and they couldn't figure it out either.

Angela

So they had left for that whole day, and she's like, I'll come and check on you tomorrow, but like your baby had not nursed at that point still.

SPEAKER_02

No, no, but I was pumping milk and stuff too, I think, at that point. So I had I had ultimately I was like, I'm not gonna do formula, so if I have to pump, then I have to pump. But yeah, no, she did not latch at all. She, I don't, you're right. I don't think she ate for that whole first day. Like, I think she might have had a little bit, but like not a lot. And then you had come by, and then she had ended up like you figured out how to get her to latch, and she latched, and like she she did really good actually that day. But after like that, I couldn't get her to latch, so I just continued pumping and feeding her through like that. It wasn't until the third month that I tried to latch her again. I was like, you know what? She's she's three months old, maybe she'll have figured it out. And I had tried latching her, and she did like like she's been doing it since day one. I was like, why couldn't she do that before? So I I started breastfeeding her at three months, which was pretty cool. I was really proud of that.

Angela

Yeah, it's a big deal, and it's it's like a learning curve for both of you for sure.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, yeah, definitely.

Angela

Definitely.

SPEAKER_02

Um, that's that was one thing that I was like, well, had she uh she was like, I'm a lactation specialist, was what she had said in her bio.

Angela

Yeah, her bio said a lot of things.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah, it did. Um she couldn't help me figure out how to do that. And that's another issue that I had was that she was like, I feel like you need to have kids or you need to have experience, like you need to have kids in order to like know what the heck's going on. Cause like you're you're telling me things about my body that you haven't even been through. That was like one issue that I had with her the entire time. And like I didn't want to judge her based upon it, or like not judge her, but like I didn't want her, like I didn't want her to like I didn't want to view her differently just because she didn't have any kids, but I I definitely was I felt better with the midwife that had 10 kids than I did her.

Angela

And I hate to say that, but you know, she sh like the the other midwife she had, or the midwife in training, I don't remember what Yeah, they were all midwives in training or jewelas that were calling themselves traditional midwives and not really being open about their experience or lack thereof.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Um she she had ten kids and then she had three adopted kids, and like, you know, she's she has experience with like the whole birth thing. Like she when we talked about like the birth and like different things like that and postpartum, she like could like personally be like, yeah, I've been through that. Whereas the other midwife could not, she didn't understand. She, you know, like she her body has never really been through that. And I hate I hate to judge her based on that, or like not judge, I keep saying judge, but I hate to like look at it like that, I guess. But that's kind of just how I felt. And like the other two did not have kids either. So like when when it came to like talking to like all of the midwives or midwives in training or whatever they were, I was definitely more comfortable with the one that had 10 kids.

Angela

So, how did things go as you got further into your postpartum time?

SPEAKER_02

Well, I'm already an emotional person, so when people say that like you're you get really emotional after birth, like I didn't really think it was true because I'm like, I'm already an emotional person. How much more emotional can I get? I think for the first well, I was also going through some personal issues too, so it might have been a mix of that, but like that first like four months or so, I was so emotional. So I'm not sure if it was because of like my personal issues or if it was postpartum. I know for the first month it was definitely because I was postpartum. I always cried, but it wasn't like sad tears, it was like like, oh my. Gosh, like I love this little girl. Like, if anything happened to her, and then I would cry sad. Like, I'd be like, I'd start off crying happy, like I love this little girl, and then I'd be like, if anything happened to her, and then I would start crying sad. But as far as postpartum physically, it was rough for me. It was a rough, like, I would say six weeks. It was a rough six weeks, six weeks for me. I know for the first three or four weeks, I did not want to go to the bathroom because of how much it hurt. And it wasn't even like going number two. It was it was going number one. Like no number two, I had the whole stool softener thing, so I was good. Like that was fine. It was like it was peeing. I couldn't like it hurt so bad, I didn't want to do it. My mom would come home, or my mom would come check on me after like a 12-hour shift, and she'd be like, Have you peed today? And I'd be like, No. Then she'd like, Kate, you gotta go to the bathroom. And it was like, okay. So there was there was that. I I struggled getting out of bed. Um, you know, I struggled postpartum, like physically very much. So like if like I see on Facebook all the time, they're like, What was the hardest part for you? And then it's like breastfeeding birth or the pregnancy. And I was like, why is postpartum not an option? Why is like physically being hurt not an option? I'm like, that's that's mine. Because you know, breastfeeding, it was obviously rough, but not as rough as like the postpartum physically.

Angela

Do you feel like that was maybe related to how fast the birth went, which might have been related to all of the substances that your midwives had you consuming that day when you were already feeling early labor symptoms?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I listen, I wasn't really sure. Like I don't know the science behind it, I don't really know anything about it. But then when my mom started pointing things out and she was like, listen, you had a nine-pound baby, you should have been in labor a lot longer than you were. I was like, geez, like I was kind of happy that I went through label labor so fast. I was like, it's done and over with. Well, like thinking back, I'm like, well, I guess it maybe my time, like my my body didn't have enough time to process everything. So, like, you know, looking back, I'm like, yeah, I think I think the tinctures and I think like it just all went way too fast for my body, for my baby, for everything. It just went too fast. And that's why I tore I had two third-degree tears. So I do believe I went too fast for that.

Angela

Yeah, the way the law is for the licensed midwives is that anything past a second degree tear is automatically like you should go to they're like recommending that you go to the hospital for that. But and then there's all these like other birth, you know, circles or they're like, no, you know, you don't need to do anything, and that's fine too. And it's like there's so much information out there around like all of these things, it it can be hard.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and everybody has well, that's the thing is that I would like to say that people should trust in their bodies more. I would like to like, I would like to think if like somebody thinks they should go to the hospital, they should go to the hospital. Like, I feel like I believe that you should listen to your gut. So if you feel like you needed to go to the hospital, then you could you go to the hospital. If you feel like you don't need to go to the hospital, then don't go to the hospital. Or if you just kind of want that reassurance, then you can also go to the hospital. But like, like whatever you feel like you need to do. I'm glad that I did not go to the hospital. As much as it hurt and I was in pain, I was glad that I did not go to the hospital. That was one thing that I was like, I do not want to go to the hospital. I'm so afraid of different things. Like my friend that had just given birth to her baby boy, she could not see her son for a whole day. Like she got to see him for two seconds after he was born, and then they took him immediately to the NICU, and she could not see him at all. And I was like, I literally I would have caused a riot if that had happened to me. So I the you know, just the whole different stories that you hear about the hospital, and like they just don't consider what you want. So that was one thing that I was like, no, I like I need somebody to be like, like I understand your opinion, maybe we can work something out, but like the hospital is just like my way or the highway. And that's like you know, I don't know. I was really glad I did not go to hospital. I was I was so worried I would have to.

Angela

So how have things healed since then after that like initial really hard six weeks?

SPEAKER_02

Ah, fine. I mean, after six weeks, you know, my P stopped stinging. I was good. I was good. I I as far as physically, I think I'm fine now. I don't I don't know. I don't really look down there or care too much, but um physically I'm fine, mentally I'm I feel like I'm w how I was before. So I feel like now I'm kind of like out of the whole postpartum thing. I feel better than my normal self. That's the thing. That's like what's so great about it is that like I used to be so self-conscious of my body, and now I'm like, look what my body did. So I'm I'm glad that I gave birth because I feel so much more confident in myself and my body. That's great.

Angela

Oh my gosh, I love that. Yeah, that's that's awesome. It really is. It's like a transformation of the mother too, like a rebirth, you know, and you're like becoming a new person through this whole process.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah. You really do become a new person. You become someone who doesn't prioritize themselves. And I know some people might think that's weird, that to not want to prioritize yourself, but it just makes your life so much more fulfilled. Like you feel better. Like I feel like if I didn't have jasmine, I would still be wandering around aimlessly, not knowing what to do with myself. But after I had jasmine, I was like, this is what this is what I was meant for. I was meant to do this.

Angela

Yeah.

When The Midwife Breaks Trust

Angela

So now looking back, what are some of your thoughts on your experience with your midwife?

SPEAKER_02

I feel like she wasn't as experienced as like she had let on. Yeah. I feel like like going through like the whole thing, like there wasn't a lot of complications. Well, there wasn't a lot of complications for me. Like, I feel like my birth went okay.

Angela

My like prayer for is that she learned, you know, did learn, you know, from this.

SPEAKER_02

I hope she learned too. I hope she I hope it scared her. I hope it was like, oh my gosh, like I did this. And I you know what? If I was her, I I feel like I would learn. So, like, why did she continue to give me active labor while I was in active labor? That's just one thing that I was like thinking back on it, because obviously I didn't know what was going on. They were giving me a whole bunch of things. I felt drunk, like you know, basically I was being taken advantage of. Yeah, but like I just where who would think that's the right decision to make as far as like like like it's literally called active labor, and I'm in active labor.

Angela

Yeah, and these were all homemade tinctures, so who even really knows what was in them? But it definitely didn't make sense to me that they would be giving you those when you were already in such obvious active labor.

SPEAKER_02

Especially because it was a Friday night, she had given me all of that, I was in labor. There was plenty of time, like I just I I kind of wish I wish she she would explain her reasoning for that because that was that was one thing I was afraid of with the doctors, and she kind of really didn't explain that either. I don't know. I was initially I was very happy with the whole three hours of labor, and then you know, like I started thinking about it, mom starts explaining it to me, and I'm like, oh that's true. Like, maybe postpartum wouldn't have been so hard for me. Maybe maybe things would have been better. And I guess now, like finding out that Jasmine's heartbeat was like, that's that's scary. I didn't know that. I wow. Like I was happy that it was just me and nothing had gone wrong with Jasmine, but like hearing that her heart rate was off, like that's yeah, you really have to be careful with inducing labor at home.

Angela

And like it's just really interesting because you know, she in my opinion gave the impression that it she was going to be supporting like self-directed care throughout the pregnancy, and she's like, No, I don't feel comfortable with going and attending your birth after 42 weeks, but I feel totally comfortable with giving you all of these things to induce labor while all of my friends are in town, and then kind of abandoning you postpartum when you obviously needed a little extra support.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, no, I feel like I was robbed of those those first few weeks. Yeah. I don't even think it was just her, like there was just like I said, there's a lot of personal things going on in my life at that point, and me and Levi were not doing fabulous. He was great, he did fantastic with Jasmine. He changed her. I didn't change a diaper for the first two weeks she was born. But no, like just like a lot of different things, like like I said, personally, I was going through a lot. Um, Levi wanted he wanted me to pump majority because he wanted to be able to feed her. He wanted he didn't want it to be just my job. Like he was like, I want to be able to have that bond with Jasmine too. And looking back now, I'm like, that's the mom's bond. So yeah, I don't know.

Angela

Yeah, and also your midwives were really encouraging you to pump and not just breastfeed, or they didn't help you with your latch. This lactation consultant, according to our bio, left you after your birth, and your baby had not latched, and they left you with all all of the nursing things, the the pump, the nipple shield, and formula too, which I think you gave her because when I showed up the next day, she you had just said how upset she was, and she had just been throwing up and not feeling well, and that she, yeah, hadn't nursed since birth.

SPEAKER_02

That's right. Oh my gosh, you're right. That's right. The first I think it was the first or second day we ended up feeding her formula and she threw it up. She just kept throwing it up.

Angela

Yeah, I really could not believe that they left without you establishing nursing with your baby. But even in that early postpartum time, like she had kind of checked out. She's like, I'm going on vacation.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I think that's the thing, is that I gave her the money and she was just like, let's get this thing done. Yeah. Like I hate to say that, but I just I don't know. I I gave her the money and that was the night that she had started an inductions, and I think she was just like, Let's get this done with. I have a vacation. Cause she had told me about it too. I think she had told me that she had a vacation right before I gave birth to. And I was like, Oh, that's so cool. But whatever. I honestly I was kind of done with after that. Because, you know, I was the only one I had an issue with, which is the funny part, because everybody else, they were all so sweet. But like when it came to like I had like so many issues because she would cancel on me last minute. She would, it was like, Oh, I'm sorry, this, that, and the other. Like, she like canceled and rescheduled on me multiple times.

Angela

I think she had some personal stuff going on too, like, we don't know what it was, which is like this extra.

SPEAKER_02

Well, she always said it was a birth, she always said it was a birth, and I was like, that's weird. And then, like, checking her social media, like, she was always saying that she had a birth, she had a birth, she had a birth, and then like her social media page, I was the only birth that was shown, and I did not ask for that to go on social media, which means she's not asking other parents to go on social or like parents to go on social media. Oh, she didn't ask you before she posted it. I don't no, I don't think so. And it there wasn't anything of me anyway, so I was like, whatever, she's just posting about my story. That's okay. But uh, like there was no other birth stories, no other like we went to this birth, and it was like an amazing thing. With it was just me. Like I didn't see anybody else's, but after that, I think I've seen a few births after that. So, like I like I said, she was the only one I had a problem with. I loved my favorite one. She I forgot her name. Yes, I love her, she was such a sweetheart. She was my favorite one, and then there was he who was kind of just getting started in all of it. She was more like the secretary I do with paperwork and stuff. Invited her to your birth still. Yeah, she didn't invite her to my birth, and whatever.

Angela

Yeah, it's like there's nothing against any of them, like personally, but it's like when your birth space, your intimate birth space, suddenly becomes like invaded with like four extra people, it can feel overwhelming, you know. Like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02

It was it was very oh, that's I I was so upset about that specifically. Like, you know, like that was the one thing that I was very adamant to like I I'm not a type of person who is going to confront you. I'm not the type of person that's trying to like cause conflict. Like, if it's something that you did that I don't really like, I'm not gonna say very much about it. But that was one thing that I was like, I don't want a lot of people here. I want my mom, I want you, and I want Levi. And if you need somebody to be there to help you with whatever you need help with, that's okay. One person. I was so adamant about it. I was like, I do not care as long as it's just you and one other person, and then my mom and Levi.

Angela

I don't want anybody else. So you had that discussion ahead of time.

SPEAKER_02

I've had that discussion multiple times with her, and she was like, Well, at first I was like, I kind of just want it to be you. That's what I had told her, and she was like, Oh, well, I need help with this, that, and the other thing. And I was like, Okay, well, is there any chance they could be like like one person kind of not in my space, like maybe moving around in the background? And she was like, Absolutely, that's how we can totally do it. That was the last conversation we had about it, and then like so she had said so was the one that she wanted to be at my birth, but had a full-time job as well, and she lived all the way down in Portland. Um, so she needed to like plan, like this needs to be a planned thing, and she like you know, so she had production. She was capable of coming up, she came up. Um, and like that's what she was saying. She was saying it was either gonna be or um, but she wanted to be there because she was the one that I met. She was the one that like knew me the most or whatnot. So uh came and I was like, cool, it's we got that. I'm okay with that. And then she shows up and then she shows up with her oldest daughter and her youngest son. Daughter? I don't know, her youngest that she had given birth to a few a few weeks prior to me, or a few months prior to me. So and it was in the middle of the night, yes. Um, but they were both upstairs, they weren't in my space or anything like that. They were both upstairs in the apartment, so like whatever. That's okay. And I really liked her as a sweetheart, she was my favorite. Yeah, no, that was I was a chaotic birth, but you know what?

SPEAKER_01

I did it.

SPEAKER_02

I created a TikTok, and that was one of one of my first TikToks. I was like, my greatest flex, and then it was Jasmine, and then I was like, my second greatest flex. I did it at home. Yes.

Angela

I just think it's so cool that you even, you know, wanted to choose that path, you know, because I was when you first found out you're pregnant, I was like thinking, you know, maybe you would go with like the midwives and press Kyle or something, but you were pretty set on your you know what you wanted, which is cool. Yeah, no, I I knew what I wanted.

SPEAKER_02

I didn't know like detail to detail, like I wanted purple sheets all around me. Like I didn't want, I didn't I don't know anybody about that, but I wasn't really thinking about burning off Jasmine's uh what do you call it, umbilical cord.

Go With Your Gut And Closing

Angela

So now is the final question. If you were to give advice to someone who's expecting or even new parents, what is one of the biggest things that you would want to share, like at this point in your journey?

SPEAKER_02

I guess I would say go with your gut, be open-minded. Like, you know, if you feel like you can do it, you can do it. Like, and don't second guess yourself. Like you'd like, if you can do it, you can do it. Yeah, no, and then also be open-minded. That's really important. If uh somebody like ask people their opinions, ask others like how their experience was, like, be open-minded. I hate the parents that are like, oh, you need to formula feed, or oh, you need to breastfeed, or oh, you're doing a home birth, or oh, you're doing a hospital birth. Like, you should just do what you feel is right. Like, that's your decision. If somebody's gonna judge you for that, I wouldn't hang out with them.

Angela

Yes, I love it. Yeah, and it's really separating that ideologies, like, oh, hospital birth is the only way, or you need to breastfeed. Like, those are ideologies. And like in itself, like it's a great idea that, like, oh, you know, you could breastfeed, or you could have a home birth, or you could have a hospital birth. It's like these ideas, sharing ideas instead of these ideologies that come with the you should do, you know, do this or that.

SPEAKER_02

Exactly. Exactly. That's like a perfect way to explain it.

Angela

Well, thank you so much, Kate, for taking the time to chat with me and share your birth story today. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_02

This is this is exciting. This is exciting. I'm so I'm so glad that I'm doing this. I've been wanting to do it for a while.

Angela

Before you go, I just want to remind you, I have a ton of resources for pregnancy and birth. If you're pregnant, whether you're a first-time mom or if this is your fifth baby, I want you to check out the show notes because I have some free trainings and free downloads that you can sign up for, as well as the link to access My Labor of Love, a comprehensive, self-paced online childbirth education course. I created this course specifically for moms who don't want to be told what to do, regardless of where you're birthing or who you're birthing with. And I'd honestly love to teach you everything that I know so that you can prepare for an autonomous birth experience and prepare to step into your role as the leader of your birth journey. So click to the show notes, check out all of those links, and if you ever have any questions, feel free to DM me at my main birth over on Instagram.